tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31278044.post116653866452444317..comments2023-03-21T07:07:50.202-04:00Comments on 2amsomewhere: 2am Responds to Differentiated Thoughts CritiqueUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31278044.post-1166676432247171422006-12-20T23:47:00.000-05:002006-12-20T23:47:00.000-05:00Anais writes in a comment:I do think there is som...Anais <A HREF="http://2amsomewhere.blogspot.com/2006/12/2am-responds-to-differentiated.html#116667287411324466" REL="nofollow">writes </A> in a comment:<BR/><BR/><I>I do think there is some chance for a breakthrough with your wife, and an improvement in your relationship. But there is something very, very wrong with the way she relates to you, and *she* has to want to make a change. That's the tough part here.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, it is very tough. A metaphor came to my mind tonight, an electric fence.<BR/><BR/>Sex must take place inside a strict comfort zone, which means I don't push for foreplay, I take responsibility for both of our orgasms, I don't ask for pleasuring, and I don't disturb her sexual trance during intercourse (no talking, no touch, no kissing, no eye contact).<BR/><BR/>You can't escalate sex to any higher plane of intimacy with her without encountering evasion, defensiveness, or hostility.<BR/><BR/>The marriage counselor we were seeing this summer was advocating that I should just accept this as is. What I love so much about Schnarch was that he argues that no, you don't have to accept that, but direct pressure isn't the way to get you there.<BR/><BR/>An intersting moment during our dinner conversation tonight. We got on the subject of her best friend, who is <A HREF="http://www.network54.com/Forum/3551/message/1166586609/" REL="nofollow">going through a separation and possibly a divorce</A>. She said that she learned that her friend and the friend's estranged husband are still having sex, quite possibly holding out the hope of winning him back. <BR/><BR/>I don't think she noticed the irony of the conversation, given that the estranged couple is probably having more sex in separation than we've had in our marriage for years.2amsomewherehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12343733349708172680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31278044.post-1166672874113244662006-12-20T22:47:00.000-05:002006-12-20T22:47:00.000-05:00I agree with Tom, 2am. You do need to try everythi...I agree with Tom, 2am. You do need to try everything you can think of to work things out, before you decide to give up and leave your wife. I think you're just that kind of guy, and furthermore, I admire that quality in you. And despite my pessimistic comments, I do think there is some chance for a breakthrough with your wife, and an improvement in your relationship. But there is something very, very wrong with the way she relates to you, and *she* has to want to make a change. That's the tough part here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31278044.post-1166621428979636332006-12-20T08:30:00.000-05:002006-12-20T08:30:00.000-05:00Hi 2amsomewhere, I'm the original anon poster. Ple...Hi 2amsomewhere, I'm the original anon poster. Please forgive my slow response to you. Trust that I'm very interested in helping you, not just making hit-n-run comments.<BR/><BR/>I'm asking about the vows because I don't feel it's fair to bring them up. If my H were to bring up vows, I'd be soooooo pissed off. There are so many promises and so many things he's said over the years, and not completed, how dare he bring up the vows...<BR/><BR/>You and your wife are at a point in your marriage where you are resenting each other breathing air, let alone, picking apart every word and action you each make. It's a normal progression of a marriage. There's a few choices to make -- fix the marriage and move on; get a divorce; take on a lover. <BR/><BR/>Now... the question I posed to you is exactly what I asked... Is it possible that SHE has a lover? <BR/><BR/>Before you close your eyes, shake your head voraciously and shout No, No, not her!! Just think about it. Don't get angry about it, just think about it.<BR/><BR/>When a person is unhappy with another, they close this emotional door to them slowly. However, most times, we'll open that door to someone else and are vulnerable to having feelings for someone that acts just a little bit more happy to see us.<BR/><BR/>Now please, I have no idea about you or your wife, I'm just talking out of my ass here.. but I'm talking about my life, as a woman who had severe marital trouble, an affair (or two) and somehow figured out what happened. I can tell you I have not had an emr in many years. Not for lack of suitors ;p... just hasn't happened.<BR/><BR/>What I'm saying, is I've been there where I was unhappy at home, but had a great lover, so I didn't mind being home, and I didn't care whether I was nice to the H or not. He, his opinions, and his bullshit really had no effect on me whatsoever. He just needed to be home to babysit and take out the garbage, as far as I was concerned.<BR/><BR/>I was getting my emotional needs met elsewhere (and physical).<BR/><BR/>soooooo.... is that a possibility?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31278044.post-1166589250277595852006-12-19T23:34:00.000-05:002006-12-19T23:34:00.000-05:00She knows exactly how to stop the conversation. It...<I>She knows exactly how to stop the conversation. It's her job to say the right thing, to get you off her back.</I><BR/><BR/>Interestingly, I'm kind of like 2am, so his ruminations are fascinating to me because he's covering some of the same territory that I did. <BR/><BR/>A few years ago, I left my wife. She wanted to talk "just the basics", too. Kids. Vacations. Redecorating. And she knew just what to say in order to stop... no, make that get <I>me</I> to stop the conversation.<BR/><BR/>It worked, too, for the longest time. But I stopped being shamed into ending talk about my desires. A marriage is supposed to be a <I>relationship</I>, and it's not fair that only one partner gets to have that kind of control. But she's not going to give up that power willingly. 2am is trying to negotiate - which is really the right thing to do, rather than to drop a bomb on her.<BR/><BR/>It's possible that she may not change. But in order to satisfy <I>his</I> sense of integrity (and I mean in the conventional, moral way), he needs to try everything he can think of to work things out.<BR/><BR/>Tom Allen<BR/><A HREF="http://vanillaedge.wordpress.com/" REL="nofollow" TITLE="Looking over the edge into the abyss...">The Edge of Vanilla</A>Tom Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04208222697436091267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31278044.post-1166588015701274482006-12-19T23:13:00.000-05:002006-12-19T23:13:00.000-05:00Yanno . . . Sophia makes a lot of good points. Bei...Yanno . . . Sophia makes a lot of good points. Being somewhat of an intellectual overanalyzer myself, I am fascinated by your writings, 2am, I really am. But I can't help thinking that the conclusion you are bound to reach is pretty much inevitable by now, namely that it's extremely unlikely you are ever going to have a satisfactory sex life with your wife. Either you'll decide to leave her because of that, or you'll decide to suffer in silence until the kids are older, or you'll decide to find a lover. Personally, I am kind of hoping for the first option, because the other two options will not lead as surely to your having the sort of life you seem to want. <BR/><BR/>At one time I felt as though I should remind you that when the deadline you set for yourself arrives, you are allowed to decide to give yourself an extension of time (and not make a decision or take any immediate action). However, having read what Sophia wrote makes me want to root for you to leave your wife as soon after your deadline as you can. But yeah . . . you have eight more weeks to try to make a go of things with your wife. And she may surprise you yet. Good luck to you, whatever happens.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31278044.post-1166557180728091312006-12-19T14:39:00.000-05:002006-12-19T14:39:00.000-05:00What follows is the text of an e-mail message sent...What follows is the text of an e-mail message sent by <A HREF="http://network54.com/forum/3551" REL="nofollow">PForum</A> reader sophia. It is printed in its entirety with her consent.<BR/><BR/>[begin quoted content]<BR/><BR/>From: sophia<BR/>To: 2amsomewhere<BR/>Subject: cant log in<BR/>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 11:31:33 -0500<BR/><BR/> Ive tried getting permission to add comments to your blog but it never works out. I dont know what Im doing wrong but I am a blogging nitwit for sure.<BR/><BR/> Listen, I wnet to your site since you posted that note on the PA site. It certainly wasnt me who made an anon comment for your diary. So Im not writing for that. Im writing because of all of this self analyzing you do. And then in my opinion, you jump to the wrong conclusion. This one for sure, "I just wanted to be with you, and you didn't seem to be initiating sex lately. "<BR/>I forget what you said about its meaning but I remember thinking....wrong! It just means she thought she could rub your leg only becuase it was "safe." You werent going to ask for more.<BR/><BR/> I dont know. I just dont know why I should care. But theres a part of me that just wants to tell you, if you want to get a job on the west coast then go ahead and look! For crying out loud. Get on with youre life. You're what? Waiting for your wife?<BR/><BR/> What would be so awful if you decided that eh,..she's just not into you anymore sexually. How bout saving yourself all this mental masturbation. Theres gotta be a better use of your time.<BR/><BR/> You do all this reading, come up with all these theories then hit your wife with a list of things to talk about. Is she some sort of intellectual? Dosent sound like it. So if not, what are you thinking? She'll become one? Oh yes honey lets talk about this that and the other thing.<BR/><BR/> I get the feeling she wants to discuss only the basics. Whats going on at dance class. Whats on TV. So? Well? Thats your wife! Come to terms!<BR/><BR/> Listen, my hsband is my husband is my husband. He aint never gonna change. I dont even try anymore. Whats the point? I just work around what is.<BR/><BR/> Your wife said you sound like you want a hooker. Well? Do you? And if so? So? What's wrong with that? Or does her asking you that stop the conversation dead. If so, then she knows you well my friend. She knows exactly how to stop the conversation. It's her job to say the right thing, to get you off her back. Shes happy being sexless. Cant you see that? My OP's wife acts like her children are the virgin birth anymore. Honestly. Some women get like that. For whatever reason. Usually once its gone to that extent, its never coming back. Maybe you dont want to face THAT. You sure dont need some book to see the writing on the wall now do you?<BR/><BR/> Personally I could have gone on for the rest of my life in my situation. But I decided time was short. So I got an OP. It makes me happy. Manily because I am the person that I am. And my husband cant change me. We just have different engines is all. We move at diffrent speeds. He is shy and serious I am bubbly and outgoing. And we're marrid. So we're doing as well as can be hoped for. Same goes for you too. Maybe youre doing as well as can be hoped for. So leave it at that why dont you. Quit rocking the boat when you could be developing another relationship that can give you what you need. Or, if youre reaction to that thought is, I dont want to! I want to stay within these confines. Well, thats fine too. Understand the limitations and settle down to meet it. Cuz it ainat'a comig to meet you! Really. Im glad you have a blog and that you get feedback. Have fun. You might be honing your blogging skills for years to come with this subject. Me? I'll skip the blogging and take some action. Whats the Chinese proverb? "Talk does not cook rice." <BR/><BR/>[end quoted content]2amsomewherehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12343733349708172680noreply@blogger.com